's robust. give me a number. >> to protect against al qaeda and the taliban. i think in the 15 to 20,000 range. depends on what military commanders say. the worst possible solution is have a small footprint left behind in afghanistan where they become sitting ducks and it will lead to failure. we fought too long and too hard not to get this right. his decision about a post-2014 force will affect our national security interests for decades, and would i like to support the president in it's a robust number. >> let me move you on finally to what's going on on capitol hill on the domestic side, and that is this debt ceiling that will need to be raised sometime in february. where are you on the idea of a partial or a full government shutdown to stop the spending in order to get some cuts in exchange for republicans raising the debt ceiling. >> i believe we need to raise the debt ceiling, but if we don't raise it without a plan to get out of debt, all of us should be fired. every american owes $52,000 in terms of their share of the national debt. we've raised the debt ceiling last august.